Kuldeep Bhatnagar: Hello listeners and welcome to Business Transformation with FBSPL. I'm KB, your host, and today's episode features a remarkable guest whose journey in the insurance industry has been nothing short of inspiring. Joining us is Whitney Carpenter Doig, a true force behind insurance growth, digital leadership, and market expansion. Hailing from Texas, Whitney's career spans prestigious institutions like Marsh, Argo Group, USI Insurance, and Foresight Commercial Insurance, and she currently serves as the regional vice president at SIAA. Beyond her impressive career, Whitney is a thought leader and educator contributing to industry publications and empowering others in the ever-evolving insurance landscape. Today, we dive into Whitney's insights on sales transformation, challenges in the industry, the role of digital platforms, and what the future holds for insurance sales. Whitney, thank you for joining us.
Whitney Carpenter Doig: Thank you for that amazing intro, KB. I am truly, truly honored to be here today.
Kuldeep Bhatnagar: Well, pleasure is all mine. So, let's dive right in. Whitney, in the dynamic world of insurance, sales transformation is a hot topic, you would know. So, can you share your perspective on the key elements that drive successful sales transformation within the industry, and how have you witnessed this unfold in your career?
Whitney Carpenter Doig: Yeah, so one of the things I've really noticed as we talk about sales transformation is that the process is different now. So by the time, I get a prospect or client in front of me, they've already done a significant amount of research about what I do, who I am, and what my company does, and they've likely gathered quite a bit of knowledge, whereas before we were the ones holding the power and giving all of the knowledge, but they more times they not show up questions and a pretty good foundation of what we do and if they even want to work with us or not and other companies that they'll be considering too. So, it definitely changes the dynamic of where a prospect is when they get to you. It's not the same as it used to be. They are educating themselves and they're coming to you more prepared than we have seen in the past. So, I think that also puts a responsibility back on us to put out educational content for them to find. So, before we just had to make sure that our pitch was perfected. But now you actually have to be really proactive about putting educational content out for those people to find before they even get to you. I'm a huge fan of using, you know, data analytics to try to figure out where you need to be targeting and innovation and technology to try to give you a boost when you're trying to do those things. But I think it really goes back to you've got to be educating your clients nonstop before they ever even get to have a conversation with you. And I think that is a huge transformation that technology has brought about that maybe we were not completely ready for, but here it is. So, we better figure it out quickly, right?
Kuldeep Bhatnagar: Absolutely, and as a salesperson myself, I can relate to it because, you know, especially in the B2B space, I was reading this study that says that if a prospect is hopping on a call with you, they have already made 70% of their mind whether,
Whitney Carpenter Doig: Yeah,
Kuldeep Bhatnagar: They want to go ahead with it or not. And that's based on how you put yourself out there on this internet world. Say, two things, I guess. The good side is that our job is to rest 30% to convert them, which is still a good thing.
Whitney Carpenter Doig: Hahaha
Kuldeep Bhatnagar: Hahaha. But the challenging aspect is how educational content, you know, we are able to put out there, and how consistent we are. It's a change game and I totally agree with you. Thank you for that answer.
Whitney Carpenter Doig: Yeah,
Kuldeep Bhatnagar: Yeah, moving on to the next one, say, sales, as we know, comes to its own set of challenges from your extensive experience, what challenges have you encountered and how did you navigate them? Any specific strategies that provided instrumental, that proved instrumental in overcoming hurdles and driving positive outcomes? We would love to know.
Whitney Carpenter Doig: Yeah, I love this question. So, in my industry alone, I heard a statistic that new producers that come in, about 10% are successful. And the rest are not successful. Why is that? Isn't that crazy? That one hits you pretty hard. And in my opinion, staying motivated is really challenging. And that's part of the key. You've got to stay motivated. You've got to teach yourself that you can't take what they're saying personally. You've got to realize It doesn't have anything to do with you. Don't let what they say get you down. Even though it does directly impact you, you can't let it put you in a bad mental space. And so, I always try to say, think of every no as one step closer to a yes. So, you've got to navigate through all the nos to get to the yes, but you've got to stay motivated and celebrate your small wins all throughout that. And one of the things that for me personally, I struggled with that was key in transforming things for me is to come at sales from more of an abundance mindset instead of a scarcity mindset. So, at first, it was like, I have to have all these clients. I have to get every one of them. I can't say no. I can't talk to them because they're going to go away and I have to have them. But when I started thinking about things like, no, I have something really important to offer them. They should want to work with me. And if they walk away, that is 100% okay. I'm going to find another one. That really changed things for me when I shifted, thinking about it from more of an abundance mindset to a scarcity mindset. I think if you can master that, you're going to be miles ahead.
Kuldeep Bhatnagar: Wow, it's two key takeaways, an abundance mindset. And I love that every no takes you closer to a yes.
Whitney Carpenter Doig: Yeah.
Kuldeep Bhatnagar: And that's really true. In fact, you know, I tell you what, I personally have stopped thinking of getting sales on a call. So, I go out on a call to have a conversation, to learn about them,
Whitney Carpenter Doig: Yeah.
Kuldeep Bhatnagar: To tell them what I do. And in this process, sometimes you make sales, sometimes you don't. But I realized when I looked back at the data, that since I adopted this mindset, my numbers have gone up because I'm not chasing them. I'm just having genuine conversations and truly finding out if my services can help them. So, yeah, I think that that's great. Every no takes you closer to yes. Thank you so much for that.
Whitney Carpenter Doig: Yeah, and you're developing that genuine connection, which is important too, and I love that.
Kuldeep Bhatnagar: Perfect. So yeah, as a seasoned professional, you have been involved in broker and agent education. How can insurance businesses enhance the effectiveness of their brokers and agents to drive better outcomes? Are there specific approaches education-wise or tools that you find particularly impactful? What's your take on that?
Whitney Carpenter Doig: Yeah, so before I got into the insurance industry, I was a teacher. So, my soapbox has been and probably always will be an education. I totally believe in educating your clients and your prospects. Educate, educate, educate. But not just on the front end, it's continuous. It's through the entire sales cycle. It's when they become a client. It's when you're maintaining that relationship. It's so important and people respond differently when they understand the why when they understand why are you doing this? Why are you giving me this message? Why is the process like this? Why can you solve my problem? Starting with why it is so important, and it helps to build trust, it helps to maintain trust. And then it allows you to have those tough conversations when you need to because they truly have this understanding because you've been educating them the entire time. I just feel like it's so impactful. And one of the main things to remember when you're educating people is to try to convey the information in different ways because you have different learning styles. Some people need to see it visually. Some people need to hear it with a video or something of that nature. Some people need to write it down. So, I think you've got to get creative and make sure that the way that you're educating people and the way that you're putting out content and information hits multiple different learning styles so that they can consume the information that you're putting out. But I'm a huge believer in educating, learning, and all the things.
Kuldeep Bhatnagar: Wow. So, what you're saying is that there cannot be the same yardstick for everyone. There has to be a different style based on how a person absorbs learning, right?
Whitney Carpenter Doig: Yes, absolutely.
Kuldeep Bhatnagar: Yeah, and I find that problem a lot of times. Let's say you're using an agency management system, and every agency management system has its own tutorials and videos out there, you know, in their own university world. But when an agent tries to learn from them, they're not able to relate it, because what they're doing is very different from what the agency management system is telling them to do. So, I can totally relate to that. So yeah, great. Not the same yardstick, not always.
Whitney Carpenter Doig: Yes, I like that phrase. I'm going to have to use that now.
Kuldeep Bhatnagar: All yours. Hahaha.
Whitney Carpenter Doig: If you see me with a video and I'm holding a yardstick, you know what's coming. Hahaha.
Kuldeep Bhatnagar: I'll be on a watch.
Kuldeep Bhatnagar: Cool. So yeah, your expertise spans across multi-line commercial and personal experiences. Could you shed light on how businesses can strategically grow in both these areas? Because we have seen that there are businesses that want to keep a good mix of both. And so, what consideration should leaders keep in mind to balance growth across diverse insurance portfolios? And it can be not just personal and commercial, it can be live, it can be benefits, or a good mix of everything.
Whitney Carpenter Doig: Yeah, I think diversification is huge. So, I say try to offer a diverse range of products that can attract a broad customer base. And then that's also going to boost your retention because the more touch points you have with that client, the stickier they'll be if you will. So like if you're already writing commercial insurance, maybe you need to look at more specialized coverages. So, you may be writing those commercial policies, but maybe consider adding cyber or professional liability. I was listening to a podcast yesterday on professional liability and how important it is and how there are so many out there that it doesn't quite click how important that can be. That's a great way to diversify. Or maybe you get into a niche industry where you focus on a specific industry and diversify your book in that way by adding some specialized business into your book. I mean, you can always cross-sell, right? Everybody wants to talk about the power of cross-selling. So, you can use that to your advantage. But what about data? I feel like we should be looking at data and analytics tools to be able to tell us where we should be diversifying our books. And what are our customers doing and how can you improve customer engagement? Where should you be targeting? If you're not effectively using your data, what are you even doing? It can really drive so much of your action that it could be hugely, hugely meaningful. And then I think it's important to build your relationships also, relationships are going to help you diversify as well. So that's not just relationships with your clients. I'm talking about another business owner with industry associations with your chambers of commerce, just really getting those relationships really broad across a diverse group is going to be helpful, too. And then I say invest in technology also, like what can you do from an AI perspective maybe to help you accomplish those goals too, and then just continuing to change and adapt to what the market is bringing your way. It's tough. but it's completely doable.
Kuldeep Bhatnagar: Yeah, lots of insights there. And I also totally agree that let's say I'm doing a commercial, and if I'm focusing on only just one aspect of the commercial, I might be missing out on a lot of other things. And what happens in that scenario is, let's say one of my existing customers' needs cyber as well, or maybe professional, and I do not have that, they will go out to a different vendor.
Whitney Carpenter Doig: They will
Kuldeep Bhatnagar: And if they like it better, you know, I might lose the business. So yeah, at least even if they do not diversify a lot, I think they should have complementary and supplementary products so that their client can have everything from you versus,
Whitney Carpenter Doig: Yeah,
Kuldeep Bhatnagar: You know, managing multiple brokers and agents, which is,
Whitney Carpenter Doig: Yeah, completely.
Kuldeep Bhatnagar: A painful experience to have.
Whitney Carpenter Doig: It is that you can make their life easier, and it benefits you all at the same time.
Kuldeep Bhatnagar: Great. So, you talked about, you touched upon relationships, so let's talk a bit about it. So, building and maintaining a relationship is a critical aspect of sales. In your role as a regional vice president with SIAA, how do you approach relationship leadership, especially in the context of driving sales growth? Any lessons learned that you could share with our audience, please?
Whitney Carpenter Doig: Hahaha, so this is one of my favorite topics, as you probably know. Of course, I'm going to say be authentic, right? Just show up as your true authentic self. And I try to do this in every new relationship. I show up as 100% authentic Whitney. And I just find that I'm able to build trust so much faster than I would if I were playing the typical sales, if you will, game. But when I just show up and I'm me, I'm open, I'm transparent in communication, I try to show empathy and really build a genuine connection with them, it really, for me anyways, changes the whole process. It makes it so good, so good. You would think that just that one thing people want authentic connection. And I've said this before, there was actually a study that they put out that's called the Spain Scale, where they took about 25,000 people, put them in a room, and the purpose was to measure the power of the emotions that they were feeling. And you would think that love was the most powerful emotion that a human felt, but it actually isn't. It's authenticity. That right there is power. That is mind-blowing to think that you could have so much power just by showing up as your true authentic self when you're building relationships with clients and other business professionals. It's really powerful.
Kuldeep Bhatnagar: Wow, so in a way, when you are being authentic, you're already creating that trust factor. So even if they may not need your services, when they do, or if they do know someone who needs it, they will remember you because you were true ‘You’ when you were presenting yourself in the services. Well, being authentic.
Whitney Carpenter Doig: Yeah, yeah, they don't feel like you're just trying to sell them. And I feel like that really changes things.
Kuldeep Bhatnagar: Absolutely, Wonderful. Say, again, coming back to the insurance world, the insurance industry is ever-evolving. How do successful professionals adapt to changes in the industry, especially in the context of sales, I think insurance for agencies is all about sales. Retention comes after it, but if you have to survive and grow, sales are a must-have. So, are there any certain mindset shifts or strategies that you believe are crucial for navigating the dynamic nature of the insurance business?
Whitney Carpenter Doig: Yeah, I think you really have to embrace technology. Like, we're talking about this today because we've seen a wave of digital transformation, and professionals have to be able to leverage these types of tools to stay competitive, or they will no longer be competitive. So, maybe they actually use a CRM to manage their client relationships instead of... an Excel spreadsheet, which we all so love, but maybe it's time to do something different. Or you're using data analytics tools to understand your customer's behavior better, or learning about emerging things like Insurtech that could be beneficial for you as well. So, I think if we're not embracing technology that we're missing in a way that is going to be detrimental at some point, maybe not right away, but at some point, if you're not embracing technology and doing the whole digital transformation thing, it's going to come back in a negative way. I think that we've got to be flexible and resilient because as you're changing things and trying to do things a different way, you're going to come into challenges, but you're also going to find opportunities. So, you've just got to continue to be flexible and be open to pivoting what you're doing and trying it in a different way so that you can find the thing that's going to help you succeed and differentiate you. And then I think one of the huge parts is to maintain a customer-centric approach. Like remember that they are your goal you need to bring value to them, really understand their needs, and be able to meet those needs. And I feel like professionals, sales professionals who really keep this at the forefront of their strategy, remembering why they're showing up on a daily basis, despite the industry challenges are going to be successful at the end of the day because they're really rooted in who they're showing up for and what the mission is.
Kuldeep Bhatnagar: Right. I think this is great advice, technology, and client-centricity. I was talking to a customer yesterday. So, the client again is a Canada-based agency. And I asked this question. So, what's your sales strategy? You know, the top one. And he said something very unique. He said client retention. And I couldn't relate for a second. So, I asked, you know, what? How client retention is retention, not a sales strategy. He says, I tried performance campaigns and per lead cost is way too high to even reach break-even in the next three or four months. So, if I keep my current clients happy, my referral business shoots up. So that's his strategy and I couldn't agree more. That's the best strategy to have.
Whitney Carpenter Doig: Yeah.
Kuldeep Bhatnagar: You can make each of your customers your brand ambassador. I think that's the best ready one can have.
Whitney Carpenter Doig: How big is that? I mean, and so meaningful when you've got people talking about you and talking about how well you do things and why they should do business with you, and then you don't have to establish that credibility. It's already there. I think that that's a great strategy.
Kuldeep Bhatnagar: Absolutely. Wow. Great. So yeah, moving on to the next one.
Whitney Carpenter Doig: Hehehe
Kuldeep Bhatnagar: Sales and business development often go hand in hand. From your experience, how can businesses create a synergy between sales efforts and overall business development strategies, or is there a delicate balance that needs to be maintained? And if so, how do you strike?
Whitney Carpenter Doig: Yeah, so I think that when we are in this space, everybody, and I've said this earlier, everybody has to be aligned with the ‘Why’. Everybody has to be working towards the same mission, really understand that mission, and have objectives that are lined up with that mission. If anybody's off, it's kind of like I was using this example the other day. When people run in military style, you know where they're running in the line and then the person in the back has to move to the front, and they have to keep everybody going and support everyone on the same level, I think that can translate, right? We've all got to be aligned. We've all got to be pushing and pulling in the same direction or it's going to cause problems. If they, if everyone doesn't understand how their role at that company contributes to the mission. You're going to find huge misalignment. So, I think that there needs to be conversations about strategy, sharing insights and experiences, and really being intentional about making sure that everyone is aligned with the company mission and the company initiatives. I just recently learned about project boards, like shared project boards. I think those are so great for keeping everybody aligned. And, you know, why are, it seems like it's all the tech companies that are using those. Why aren't we all using these cool little boards that can make sure that we're all aligned, like a visual to keep us all on track, a target that we're heading towards? I think that everybody has to be aligned with the mission, know their why, and know how they impact that specifically with what they do.
Kuldeep Bhatnagar: Yeah, and I like the power of visuals for alignment. I think that can be great and huge because that way everyone is literally on the same page. Yeah.
Whitney Carpenter Doig: Yeah.
Kuldeep Bhatnagar: Hahaha, great. So, looking ahead, what trends do you foresee shaping the future of insurance sales? Are there any emerging technologies we talked about technology a lot. So, are there any emerging technologies or industry shifts that insurance professionals should keep a close eye on and can stay ahead of the curve?
Whitney Carpenter Doig: Yeah, so I'm a huge fan of AI. I just love it. I love the potential that's there for AI. And I think that that's a trend that we're going to see helping the industry in many different ways. And that's going to continue to expand as we go. So, I think about streamlining processes, helping us make better business decisions, helping underwriters make more informed decisions, and portfolio management. Even if you're thinking about an agent quoting an account, if they could have AI that's suggesting, typically companies with this code are concerned about this type of coverage, have you considered that? I mean, I really think that the sky's the limit with AI. And definitely something, a space that I want to be in and watch the whole time because I think it's really going to be transformative. Let's see. I've talked about data analytics, too. And I really feel like that's going to remain a player for the long term. It's not going anywhere, but the challenge is learning how to effectively use the data in a good way. You can have a ton of data, but if you're not using it in a good way, it's not going to do you any good. So, I really think that we need to use data to help us dig into customer behavior and market trends to assess risk and maybe even develop better sales strategies, really digging into the data that we have and using it to our advantage. And then I think we're going to continue to see stuff from InterTECH companies. I think that they're going to be around and that there's potential to really see growth there and to see some companies in space doing some pretty cool things.
Kuldeep Bhatnagar: Wow, what's your favorite AI?
Whitney Carpenter Doig: Oh, I mean, I love all AIs. How are you even supposed to pick? I mean, I learn more and more every day. I learned about Gemini this morning and I've never used it, but that's one that I want to go and check out now because I just keep learning. I think every time I talk to you, I learn about a new AI option, and I'm always really impressed by all of them. I don't know if I could pick a favorite. I love them all.
Kuldeep Bhatnagar: No, but Gemini is good. I think the new version is fantastic and it gives you a lot without the cost. So, I think it's a great option for everyone to use, especially when you want to do some research work. I think that that's a great tool to have.
Whitney Carpenter Doig: Yeah. And one of the things that I learned that I didn't know that I actually learned from you is when you're getting stuff from AI and you don't feel like it's the kind of quality that you want, you can actually teach.
Whitney Carpenter Doig: Teach it things. And then you'll get better results. That blew my mind. And yeah, so I've been using that religiously ever since you taught me that. Teach AI. There you go, educate. Hahaha.
Kuldeep Bhatnagar: I will tell you one secret about that one. Say, in our team, we all share the entire day's major updates, you know, that happen throughout the day so that everyone is aware of what's going on with everyone. But, you know, I'm a lazy person by nature.
Kuldeep Bhatnagar: Hahaha
Whitney Carpenter Doig: Hahaha
Kuldeep Bhatnagar: So, writing the detailed stuff was pretty boring for me. So, what I did was I trained ChatGPT, sharing how I write, and what kind of reports I write. And then at the day's end, what I do now is just share the pointers and it creates a beautiful one-pager for me that
Whitney Carpenter Doig: Wow.
Kuldeep Bhatnagar: That's what your entire day looks like. It mimics my language and is just an enhanced version of it. And the use cases are enormous. I think it's limitless. It's based on how far you can imagine, and it will have the solution for you.
Whitney Carpenter Doig: Yeah, absolutely. Oh, I love that little tip.
Kuldeep Bhatnagar: Haha, great, so before we wrap up, we would like to end on a lighter note.
Whitney Carpenter Doig: Hehehe
Whitney Carpenter Doig: Oh, my goodness. This is a tough one, a fictional character. You know, I don't know that it's necessarily a fictional character, but I've always wanted to be an underwriter that was like underwriting a football player's thighs. Like, how do you decide what that football player's thighs are worth and ensure that type of thing? I think that's so interesting. And when you're talking about fictional characters, you could go to the ones that are always in trouble and always causing problems and getting injured and all the things they're going to need work comp and crime, all kinds of stuff. They're going to be breaking into states. And I think that that's such an interesting question. So, I don't know if I have a specific one. We could just go with like your traditional bad guy slash superhero, I think that okay, maybe they wouldn't be the hero if they're the bad guy, but they still have all the powers, and they're doing things like robbing things and breaking into say things. Hahaha. And burning stuff down. Hahaha.
Kuldeep Bhatnagar: Hahaha. Excellent choice, excellent choice. And I think our listeners would love to see the terms and conditions of that one. Hahaha.
Whitney Carpenter Doig: Right? I feel like that could be an interesting little LinkedIn series for you to come up with coverages and for all the different kinds of characters that you create. I love that.
Kuldeep Bhatnagar: Hahaha. Yeah, nice idea I should explore it well.
Whitney Carpenter Doig: You should!
Kuldeep Bhatnagar: Well. Thank you, Whitney, for indulging in this playful, insightful, and wonderful conversation and insurance scenario. I Loved the conversation and I hope you did too. Thank you once again.
Whitney Carpenter Doig: I did, I enjoyed every second of it. Thank you for having me, KB, and I'm looking forward to seeing it, hearing it, and seeing how it turned out. I think it's going to be fantastic and there will be lots of great nuggets in there.
Kuldeep Bhatnagar: Fantastic, you would be the first one to know when it's out there.
Whitney Carpenter Doig: Perfect.
Kuldeep Bhatnagar: Great. Thank you so much once again.
Whitney Carpenter Doig: Thank you, KB. Have a good one.
Sales Transformation in Insurance with Whitney Carpenter Doig 
